On 2/27/2013 3:19 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
On 2/26/2013 10:29 PM, Richards wrote:
YES - the author makes a good case for using something tailored to the
task.
Bullsh&t.
There is no need to get crude or angry over this.
What is needed for good speech quality is nothing more or
less than a loudspeaker with flat response AND uniform coverage in the
speech range.
Funny... that is just what the author was
saying. And he suggested a center channel
speaker as exactly that sort of thing.
Otherwise, you have been outvoted by an entire
industry - which sells center channel speakers
expressly on the premise they enhance speech
and dialog intelligibility. And outvoted by legions
of movie fans who buy them for that very reason.
And, because many (most?) ham rigs don't have high power
audio output stages, it needs to be fairly efficient. "Tailored to
speech?" Horseh*t. Nothing more or less than a decent small, accurate
loudspeaker that sounds the same over a fairly wide angle.
Exactly what WE are saying ! Apparently you
agree with us, after all. You have just described
what we mean by a "speaker tailored for speech."
Now, it so happens that Optimus is the "house brand" that Rat Shack used
in the 70s and 80s. They didn't make anything themselves,
Nobody does.... it all comes from some
outfit in China. Besides that is hardly
relevant or probative of any point under
discussion here.
the small speakers they sold under the Optimus name were pretty decent,
and we used them a bit for making noise in rooms to do acoustic
testing. But "optimized for speech?" Zebrash&t.
You have missed the point entirely.
We are only saying that a small, flat sounding
speaker that does not have a lot of bass or treble
is one that is "tailored for speech" --
Maybe we should say, instead, that that sort
of speaker is "most suitable for speech"
intelligibility. But your description fits what
we are saying exactly.
FACT -- not all speakers are well "suited for
speech" intelligibility -- which is why you
specified "small" as a design criterion.
FACT -- there are loads of flat response speakers
that are not well suited for speech applications.
Older, JBL studio monitor speakers with 15 inch
woofers just do not sound as clear as, for example,
the 5 inch Avantone MixCube speaker - or similar
size center channel speakers.
By specifying "decent small, accurate loudspeaker
that sounds the same over a fairly wide angle"
YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED EXACTLY WHAT IS
RIGHT ABOUT THE CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER
AND WHAT MAKES IT WELL SUITED FOR VOICE
APPLICATIONS.
FACT -- not everybody agrees what sounds
good. Not all speakers with a flat
response will suffice or please everyone.
In you effort to tell us how stupid we are, you have now overstated your
case. I doubt you will convince the throng of ham operators that any
old speaker with flat response will sound as good as any other speaker
with flat response. Fact is, each speaker has it own character and not
everybody will like the character of each speaker you play. That is
why there are so many speaker manufacturers with so many different
speakers to buy - not everybody agrees what sounds best.
The reason that loudspeaker he likes sounds good on speech is that it's
a decent "flat" (natural) loudspeaker. .
I disagree -- there is more too it. It sounds good
to him because it has less bass and less high end
and TO HIS EARS that makes it easier to understand
speech.
MFJ makes a little product they call the speech
intelligence enhancer - all built on the principle
that the most speech intelligence is found in
the mid-range - not the bass or high treble range -
and it has equalizer controls to enhance that
range compared to the extremes.
My wife and I listen to old time radio programs
most every night down in the shack. I use a
wide band frequency equalizer to reduce both
the lowest and highest frequencies - because this
enhances the intelligibility of the speech - dialog.
We listen to these program with some of the
most expensive high quality FLAT RESPONSE
headphones made (usually a set by Sennheiser
but we have others, too...) - OR - we listen to
the programs on very high quality FLAT RESPONSE
powered studio monitor speakers - and we both
agree this equalization makes it MUCH EASIER
TO MAKE OUT THE DIALOG - just like Mr. Jue
at MFJ says about his product.
There is a reason they make center channel
speakers with smaller woofer elements - because
they do not have as much bass response.
The author is correct - that is what people really
do - and they do it because it really works.
Instead, you tell us us to disregard all this and
to disregard an entire industry and disbelieve
the legions of movie fans who actually buy and
use small center channel speakers because they
actually do enhance speech intelligibility and
make it easier to understand the dialog.
In theory any old flat response speaker should
do - BUT IN FACT, there is more to it and the
size of the speaker, the size, material, and
density, displacement and all that other
jazz which differentiates one from another
DO IN FACT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
On your theory, we would all be using the highest
quality studio reference monitors from Genelec,
Klein and Hummel, Quested, PMC, Focal, or Tannoy
because they fit your definition of "decent,
accurate... flat response" etc. But in fact, many
hams would not like them, and return to their
favorite speaker. For some it will be the cost, but
for others, like me, it will be because I don't like
how they sound on my ham radio, while I love the
way they play music.
My current fave... a nice BOSS 5.25" dual cone
auto stereo speaker in a home made cabinet, or
a $36 pair of Genius computer speakers - and I can
afford any speaker I want. I have a similar 4" speaker
in a home made wood cabinet on my 2m and police
scanner. Why? Because it sounds good to me - it cuts
right through the ambient noise and makes it is easy
to understand what people are saying. A friend of
mine who designs commercial grade audio products
helped me dampen the cabinet to avoid resonance.
Bottom line - when you describe what works... you ARE describing a
center channel speaker just like the author recommends. A small speaker
with relatively flat response that just so happens to sound good on a
ham radio. And the other ham is not foolish for thinking it sounds
better TO HIM - and only he can say what sounds better to him. He
cannot be wrong about that, while you may think it does not sound good
to you.
Wondering what you recommend and use?
But that is just MY take...
PS -- I don't need an engineering degree to know what sounds good to me.
------------------------ K8JHR -------------------------
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