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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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by N5GLR on August 11, 2005
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Len,
What a great idea ... CW ID instead of voice. I have a few audio capable memories on my HF rig that I can put to good use in that regard. I like all of your suggestions but, unfortunatly, don't own a repeater. However, we'll see how well the CW ID thing flies on HF. I'll implement it soon but, maybe at 13 wpm for the General SSB sub-bands.
Garry
N5GLR
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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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by oldfart13 on August 12, 2005
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There is no way the FCC is going to retain it for General. I think that the code exam should be maintained for the Extra class license. If the ultra liberals at NCI/NCVEC, and other anti-code bigots can't accept this then I think they shouldn't even bother with ham radio; they can go back to thier internet chat rooms.
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No code makes No sense: think about it
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by N4ST on August 12, 2005
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Hate to say it, but being employed by the Federal Government for +30 years, there isn't a high correlation between what makes sense and what gets implemented.
CW will be around for a long time.
My wristwatch has hands, not digits.
There are those of us who like driving a stick-shift.
Some still enjoy riding horseback.
Here in the Chesapeake Bay area, many prefer sails to outboards.
And in the future, when babies are mostly conceived in test tubes,
well... you get the picture.
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No code makes No sense: think about it
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by N2QRO on August 13, 2005
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I do not believe that I have ever heard so much Panic and extremism over a subject! You would think that someone was passing a Law Against USING CW! The people who have an interest in learning and using CW, will. Those who are currently studying CW will continue, and those who are currently using CW will continue to use it. Many more will view it as "nostalgic" and will want to learn it and many will see it as an accomplishment which sets them aside from others. The extremists are making it sound like as soon as the code is dropped, it will suddenly fall off of the face of the earth! What are you saying? If you had not been FORCED to learn CW, you wouldn't have? Is that where the problem lies? All of you who are screaming the loudest are admitting that they would not have learned the beloved CW if not forced to? Come on!
I suspect that perhaps an even larger number will take an interest in CW when it is no longer a requirement. When it becomes a volunteer activity, it becomes a matter of pride and accomplishment! Not - I learned it because I had to. Those that do learn will experience an even greater feeling of pride and accomplishment.
Everyone is aware (although none come right out and say it) that CW is being used as a filter to filter out the Riff Raff. This is the totally wrong approach! Why require someone who has no interest in CW to have to learn it so that they can talk? Should we send Medical Doctors to school to graduate as an engineer in order to practice medicine with little or no education in medicine? This is what we are doing now. Anyone can go to QRZ.COM and take practice exams which contain the EXACT questions, with EXACT wording, with actual answers and even the actual wording to the incorrect answers. This is down right cheating! If you were in college, and someone found a copy of the final exam - that would be cheating in itself. Everyone knows that you cannot question someone on EVERY aspect of ANY subject, so we just pick some at random to demonstrate whether you know the SUBJECT. If you know the questions, you can study only the subjects covered by the questions and ignore everything else - CHEATING.
If, on the other hand, someone has a copy of the answers, there is no doubt that this is cheating, on any subject, anywhere, anytime. So why is it OK for Amateur Radio? It is cheating in college, cheating in the first grade, cheating on a civil service exam - just plain cheating, pure and simple. And, it is accepted practice with Amateur Radio.
Now, what does this say about our Tech-Plus and General class licensee's? If you are a Tech, I figure it is because you do not want to learn something that you personally may never use again the rest of your life. I need to point out to all that are acting like a law is being passed AGAINST CW rather than dropping a requirement: Requiring someone to learn it does not mean they will retain it, use it, or even practice to a point that is useful - not at all. OK, so if your a Tech, it is probably due to CW, but if you are a Tech-Plus or General, you have NO EXCUSE! It is a simple little test that has been supplied with the questions as well as the answers with exact wording on a multiple choice test! If you have passed your Element 1 (cw) and you are not an EXTRA Class operator - what does this say about the intelligence of those we are letting into amateur radio? Not Much! If they can't pass a simple, multiple choice test with the questions AND answers supplied in advance, then hese are the people we should be watching out for, NOT "No Coders" Once I saw how simple the tests were, and even sent my daughter on a bet after only one day of study, whenever I hear someone say they are a General, or worse, a Tech-Plus (no longer "official"), I start watching for some kind of mental disability. No one can be that "dumb" without a reason, can they?
Want to do something for the hobby, Drop CW and stop using it as a "filter". Make the tests harder - much harder. Quit handing out answers and questions and stop using simple 2nd grade level multiple choice tests with only 35/50 questions. Put the filter where it needs to be, in the skills that the person has to be an amateur radio operator - not to do, or not do, code. It shows us nothing about that persons ability to be a successful radio operator.
I sat down on QRZ.com and studied my tests "backward" starting with Extra. When I had the Extra test down to where I was getting 100% everytime, I moved on to General - thinking it would be simple - it wasn't. Then finally down to Tech. The reason passing the Extra test did not make the General test any easier was because I was not LEARNING anything! Heck, I wasn't even reading the entire questions. Only matching a few words of the question to a few words of the correct answer. I knew nothing of the subject.
I went in on test day and passed all three tests in a row missing 1, 5 and 9. But, I am still a Tech because I could not pass element 1 at that time. Does any of this make sense to anyone? I should not have been able to pass those tests after only 3 days of study (my 19 year old daughter did it after ONE day of study) - but since we did, should we be held at Tech because of CW?
The hobby will survive and if all of the "Expert CW operators will take it upon themselves to encourage and help others learn CW, the ART WILL NOT die. It may become even better!
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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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by VE3TRU on August 14, 2005
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Canada no longer has the Code..
I think one day everyone will understand this was stupid. I got my licence because I thought it would be fun, it wasn't. You can only operate above 30mhz not bellow, but if you have code buddy your OK. Now they have no-code and you have to rewrite the exam, cuz u got no code. The same exam somone with code has, but there is "no code anymore."
I do not have to rewrite anything because I wrote before the changes. I tried hard to get the code, tapes ect.(I couldn't take classes cuz I work nights) I'm tone deaf can't hear dots dashes.Its not fair, u piss them off and wonder why no one is on the air anymore. Amature radio will make a come back because there is no code on the exam. Don't get me wrong I think code is important this is why once again I am trying to get the code ("not required anymore")from a local club.
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No code makes No sense: think about it
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by k3bz on August 14, 2005
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A lot of the comments here describe good reasons to learn CW, but really don't address why CW should remain a MANDATORY test element. There's hundreds of good reasons to learn and use CW, we all know what they are, and those reasons will continue to exist for a long time to come, maybe forever. But isn't it clear that FORCING newcomers to learn CW before we let them in the door is a little outdated? Not to mention probably counterproductive.
Isn't nearly everyone turned off when they are forced to learn something for which they see little value? And isn't the value of CW pretty unclear these days... until a new ham gets a little experience under his... or her... belt, and gets interested in DXing or Contesting or Traffic-handling? THEN it's much easier to see CW's value.
What about digital modes? CW is part of that, and digital is a big attraction these days. So it shouldn't take long for a new ham to notice CW and become aware of its continuing value, and how much fun it can be.
I see no reason to react to the idea of discontinuing MANDATORY CW testing as it meant the same as BANNING CW use....it doesn't mean that. CW is alive and well, and it certainly isn't going to die just because we stop shoving it down newcomer's throats in order for them to get a ticket.
My 2 cents.... 73, Jerry K3BZ
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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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by oldfart13 on August 14, 2005
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Code at a mere 5WPM is only an introduction to the mode. No one is being required to master it or even use it. However, the consummate ham will go beyond the 5WPM and use it.
That is the main reason that the code exam should be required for the Extra class license; because he/she is supposed to be the consummate ham and should know it.
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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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by N2QRO on August 15, 2005
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OldFart13 (I think it is) writes that code at 5 WPM is just an "introduction" to code and not really meant to be used unless studied further and (My Words) "Mastered".
He says that the "consummate" ham will continue to study and become more proficient over time after being introduced initially.
This is cited as good cause to maintain the 5 WPM code requirement for Extra class licensee's because: "Extra class operators are supposed to be the consummate operator and should know it (CW)."
If I were to agree with this line of thinking, I would have to ask myself: "Why just code?" Why should the consummate HAMS of the Extra class only know, or at least have a working knowledge of ONLY CW? Why not also require a working knowledge of Digital/PSK-31/Packet/ Fax/RTTY, SSTV/FSTV, EME/Moonbounce/QRP, SSB, AM, Satellite, and the list continues. Shouldn't we also REQUIRE a working knowledge of all these different "modes" within the hobby of our "consummate" operators? Does knowledge of Phone and Code qualify one as a "consummate" operator?
As shown above, there are so many different "modes" which all fall under the larger definition of the hobby of amateur radio, how can we decide which ones we should require our Extra class operators to PROVE they have a working knowledge of? After all, these are our "Top of the line".
Perhaps we are just trying to single out code, because at one time it WAS popular and was used more than even phone, and I agree it WAS necessary to have a good knowledge to call yourself a "HAM". In that respect, it is gone, facts are facts, let it go.
It is no longer necessary to have this knowledge and unlike many other forms of communication, Code (CW) is now elevated beyond just a "mode" and has become an ART. Just as art is not required for a basic education, but is available as a choosen course, so should CW also be. It can no longer be argued that it is needed, we all see this, Art is not needed. Art is something to be practiced, to be proud of, to display and maybe even brag about. We all can't be artists. Some of us just don't have the talent and some of us are just not interested. You cannot force art on someone.
Many hams will pick other available areas to practice and become good at, some will always choose to study the art of code. If each code artist alive right now would take one person under their wing to teach the art to, the numbers will not dwindle. Take two, and the art will double!
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RE: No code makes No sense: think about it
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Anonymous post on August 16, 2005
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There are some valid reasons why one cannot learn the code: hearing problems, dyslexia, mental retardation, laziness, or just plan being stupid.
When you combine facts like reliability, ease of use, simple equipment, then you soon realize that CW is by far the most superior mode there is. Despite all the advances we have made it is still true toady.
I wonder why these liberal extremists don't even want the super easy 5wpm code test for the Extra class? When you want a welfare license; you want the whole thing without any work. And that is the real reason they want it eliminated; it is because they don't want to do any work to earn a license. They only want to memorize some answers and keep taking the exams until they pass it. Some even go so far as to bootleg callsigns like N2QRO
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