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Contesting Online Survey

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Recently the RDXC committee reclassified P3F to high power from low power without publicly providing strong evidence that any infraction had occurred. They concluded was that the contestant was running HP on 80/40m but not full-time, just 10 minutes here and there without any convincing evidence. It appears they used the RBN as their source of information. Should the RXDC contest have to publicly provide convincing evidence before reclassifying a station from LP to HP?

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There has been a lot of discussion pro and con about the GetScores website posting real-time contest scores ( Would seeing the real-time SUMMARY scores of your competition provide you with any competitive advantage?
  Posted: Feb 29, 2008   (245 votes, 12 comments) by w4nz

  Neither, motivational tool only
  This is not for "serious" competitors
  Don't know
  Don't care
    (245 votes, 12 comments)
Survey Results
Yes 12% (30)
No 31% (76)
Neither, motivational tool only 34% (83)
This is not for "serious" competitors 4% (10)
Don't know 5% (13)
Don't care 13% (33)

Survey Comments
I think having real-time scores adds a spark to the competition. Our group doesn't connect to it. Do we check it? You bet! During the ARRL DX, the bands were so bad, we wanted to see how we stacked up against the other M/2 big guns. It's a motivation thing, not an advantage. Besides, if you've done your homework you know what bands to be on and when!

Posted by k4ua on March 6, 2008

re: GetScores= Soliciting Help
I believe N4TZ/9 and N1UR have both misread the survey question. The question applies to SUMMARY scores, not band-by-band breakdowns. From a summary the ONLY information you can get is if there is a change in the score. You cannot tell WHAT caused that change. You cannot tell what band your competition is on. Nor do you know if your competition found a new band opening, found a better run frequency on the same band or simply came on from an off period. "Band wagon effect"? Sure, it's possible, but they have to find you first. The GetScores summary doesn't tell them.

73, Ted W4NZ

Posted by w4nz on February 26, 2008

GETSCORES=Soliciting help
I can't believe that supporters of GetScores don't know that it WILL affect the contest results. Not only will my competition, Ed, N1UR, be able to tell when I found that elusive 10m opening that he needs. But, my fans and friends will see that I have the opportunity to win the contest because my score is closing in on Ed's and they will then click on packet spots to find me and build my score [the band wagon effect]. That's why the WRTC organizers didn't post callsigns to avoid this problem, and even then the word leaked out through "secret passwords" who was whom.
I think all users, even multiop and "assisted" stations, of GetScores should be disqualified from the contest.

Terry Zivney, N4TZ/9

Posted by N4TZ on February 25, 2008

Advantage Defined

15M opens at 14Z on Sunday while you are running 20M. The competition is pileing up the mults. Even with the summary only, you would see the spike and say "I am missing something". I have lost 2 contests in the past 5 years because of a 2% score difference related to missing an opening on 10 or 15. You WOULD see it, even with the summary, if it was on a Sunday.


Posted by N1UR on February 19, 2008

I tried it during the ARRL DX CW contest this weekend. It was neat to see how my score change relative to others who posted. I will do it again.

Posted by VE5ZX on February 19, 2008

I used it for the first time while attempting SOSB/80 in the ARRLDXCW contest. It provided somewhat of a motivational support while I wasn't making many Qs and saw one station just a few points ahead of me. Kept me going, even though he wasn't in my category. We kept trading places as new Qs were made on 80m and it was fun to check it out occasionally. Easy to set up with a click in N1MM. Thanks
Jeff, VE3FRX

Posted by VE3FRX on February 19, 2008

In the just completed ARRL DX CW Contest, I used GetScores to simply motivate me to put more time in. I have been missing in action lately and being able to relatively climb the board while on the air was a big motivator to me.

I just wish more stations participated. It's a good concept for motivation for the part time serious ops.

I usually operate with VERY limited time and it's fun to watch my score increase on the website. I use it simply as a motivation factor to keep me in the chair instead of running off to other obligations.

73 de
Anthony, WM3T

Note: I have children who are 5 and 3 years old. Even on weekends I want to operate seriously, their needs take priority over the hobby.

Posted by WM3T on February 17, 2008

I am not for or against, but here is a thought. It may encourage or equally discourage the little pistol. Say there are some casual contestors that want to try for some wall paper. They see a tight race between their local rival. They would probably keep going at it. If their competitor was WAY ahead, they could throw in the towel and go watch TV. Too many throwing in the towel will leave little for the others to work. Just my 2 cents worth. Not well thought out, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when reading the survey.

73, Kevin VE3RCN

Posted by VE3RCN on February 10, 2008

I agree with you 100%, Ted. I have connected to it for several contests and have achieved my highest scores ever in contesting while doing it; not because I could get information about making contacts but because watching my score against the other scores motivated me to keep going and try harder. The leaderboard in golf does not tell the individual players what club to use or how to make their shots. It lets them know how they are doing in relationship to the other competitors. Anything more that is read in to the use of GetScores is erroneous.

73 -- Paul VO1HE

Posted by vo1he on February 10, 2008

Hi Hal,thank you for your comments. In your hypothetical example, yes, you will know where I am from the packet spot and you will know my score (within 5 minutes of real time) from GetScores. But,from the summary score you cannot tell whether most of it came from the current frequency or other bands. As for how I'm doing on the current frequency, that is more easily and accurately discovered in real time by putting your second radio on me and listening. Otherwise, by the time you see an update on GetScores and make a decision to change bands, I might have already QSY'd.

We do agree, though, that if you spend much time looking at other scores, your score is going to suffer. :))

73, Ted W4NZ

Posted by w4nz on February 7, 2008

Hi Ted - sure thing. If I am operating assisted (legally) then I know what band you are on by watching you being spotted, and by watching GetScores I know how well you are doing. You and I are close enough together in QTH, skill and hardware that that provdes me an advantage in deciding to change to the band you are on or stay put. Meanwhile, you dont have my info - I'm not using GetScores. I have you at a disadvantage. Knowledge is power. This is hypothetical - I don't and won't use or even look at GetScores - I really wanted to vote "not for anyone serious."
73, Hal N4GG

Posted by N4GG on February 6, 2008

For those who have answered YES to a competitive advantage from seeing real-time SUMMARY scores, could you please elaborate on what you see as the advantage. Please do not confuse "motivation" gained from seeing your competition's score with information gained that causes a change in operating tactics. This tactical change should clearly be the result of seeing the score summary.

73, Ted W4NZ

Posted by w4nz on February 5, 2008

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