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Re: [RFI] periodic peaks in the spectrum

To: Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] periodic peaks in the spectrum
From: Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan <ram@rkrishnan.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 18:26:06 +0530
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Hello Don,

Thanks again, I am learning a lot from this thread. The 1" sniffing loop trick looks great! I am surely going to build it. I am sure this is not the last RFI I am going to encounter. I have started collecting parts for the pre-amp.

The main breaker is outside the house but inside his gate and I have access to it. The individual breakers are inside. There is a big box that has fuses to individual houses. I have access to that as well. I think it will come handy to have a sniffing loop. Thanks again.

73
Ram VU3RDD

On 21/07/2021 14:25, Don Kirk wrote:
Hi Ram,

I don't know if you can get access to your neighbors circuit breaker box or what his circuit breakers even looks like, but I have had great success using a simple 1 inch loop to sniff circuit breakers to find what circuit the device is located on that's causing RFI (you can consider this 1 inch loop an H probe).  Typically the RFI from the faulty device is conducted onto the electrical house wiring and then radiated from the house wiring versus being radiated directly from the device.

I recently found my own microwave oven control panel was generating RFI using this simple circuit breaker sniffing technique.  The sniffing method said my microwave oven circuit was causing the RFI and then I sniffed around my microwave oven and found its control panel/display unit was generating the RFI.  I have also used this simple sniffing method on circuit breakers at a large apartment complex to find the circuit that the device generating RFI was located on without the need to shut power down to the entire apartment complex as an example.

Here is the link to a video showing the small 1 inch loop I use for sniffing circuit breakers after I had identified the suspect circuit https://youtu.be/UqLQ-mmUrVA <https://youtu.be/UqLQ-mmUrVA>.  I just pass the 1 inch loop over the top of each circuit breaker listening for which circuit breaker produces the strongest interference, and this typically allows me to identify the suspect circuit.

My 1 inch sniffer loop is just a short piece of coax (like 2 feet long) where I expose the last part of the center conductor and make a 1 inch diameter loop out of it and connect it's free end to the shield (very simple).

Just another trick you might be able to use if you think you have identified the correct property generating the RFI, but please be careful (remember safety first).

73,
Don (wd8dsb)


On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 3:31 AM Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan <ram@rkrishnan.org <mailto:ram@rkrishnan.org>> wrote:

    Hello Don, Dave, Jim and others:

    Thanks so much for all the wonderful information. I have started
    reading
    the articles mentioned in order to build a DF loop. I think I am going
    to try Don's design along with a pre-amp.

    Apparently the next door neighbour (the houses are densely packed here,
    so next door is "literally" 5-6 ft away) has a 4kVA inverter. Last
    night
    when everyone is asleep, I stepped out with a shortwave receiver
    (sangean radio which I borrowed from another friend) and could zero in
    on the neighbour's house more or less. I initially suspected his fridge
    and politely asked him to turn off the fridge for a few minutes while I
    am looking at the spectrum. The birdies remained (assuming he actually
    turned it off). He did mention that he has a 4kVA inverter powering
    everything from refrigerator to other devices. That is the prime
    suspect
    now because these birdies are present 24x7.

    Going to do an on/off test of the inverter (if the neighbour is
    willing)
    this weekend. Here in the India, there is very little one can do about
    flagging violations. So, perhaps installing an x-phase based canceller
    is probably going to be the only workable solution for my shack. :-( I
    feel bad about letting a known source pollute the RF spectrum and I am
    going to try my best to fix it somehow. May be buy toroids and wrap the
    outgoing mains from his inverter or see if the chassis is properly
    grounded on the outside.

    73
    Ram VU3RDD

    On 21/07/2021 06:03, Don Kirk wrote:
     > Hi Ram,
     >
     > I recently built and tested side by side numerous direction finding
     > tuned loops, untuned unshielded loops, untuned non shielded
    loops, loops
     > with chokes, loops with transformers, terminated loops, etc.
     >
     > Based on all my testing the simplest but still reliable
    bi-directional
     > antenna for MF and HF portable direction finding that you can go
    with
     > would be a simple single loop of wire similar in size that Dave
    (W0LEV)
     > mentioned (12 to 17 inches in diameter) fed directly with coax,
    but you
     > need to use a choke right at the antenna feedpoint consisting of 14
     > turns of coax (RG58 or RG174, etc.) wound on an FT240-31 toroid core
     > (this choke is based on the K9YC choke design).  I would use
    enough coax
     > to get the 14 turns of coax wound on the toroid core plus another 36
     > inches for running to your preamp or receiver input.  The output
     > impedance of this single turn loop is reasonably low, and you can
     > therefore connect it direct to the 50 ohm input on your preamp or
     > receiver, etc (no transformer required).  If you omit the choke, the
     > antenna balance is not reliable depending on what frequency you
    use the
     > antenna on (the feedline becomes part of the antenna which then
    alters
     > the pattern and you will find big differences in the depth of the
    nulls
     > and even experience only one null depending on how high in
    frequency you
     > go).  This antenna will be bi-directional if built properly.
     >
     > The other simple option that I prefer is a untuned shielded loop
    like
     > Dave mentioned made with a piece of coax.  I tested numerous
    designs,
     > and the most reliable and easy to build untuned shielded loop for
    full
     > MF and HF coverage is what I call a traditional untuned shielded
    loop in
     > which the shield of the coax that makes up the antenna has its
    shield
     > exposed (jacket removed) near the antennas connector and the far
    end of
     > the coax (coax that makes up the antenna) shield and center
    conductor
     > connect to each other and they are then soldered to the shield
    that was
     > exposed near the antennas coax connector.  Then about 1 inch of
    shield
     > on the coax that makes up the antenna is removed at the center of
    the
     > loop which was formed by the coax.  You can then feed this simple
     > untuned shielded loop directly into your preamp or receiver since
    once
     > again the impedance of this untuned shielded loop is reasonably
    low (no
     > transformer needed).  A choke is not needed because the shielded
    loop
     > has a built in balun based on the geometry of the design.  This
    antenna
     > is really my favorite portable untuned bi-directional loop.  Once
    again
     > I would make it about 12 to 17 inches in diameter (the larger it
    is, the
     > more sensitive it will be but you need to stay 0.1 wavelengths in
     > circumference or smaller).
     >
     > The signal strength of the interference will dictate if you need a
     > preamp or not regardless of what portable MF/HF direction finding
     > antenna you use.  A 20 dB preamp will normally be adequate in all
    but
     > the weakest levels of RFI.  My favorite preamp is the DX Engineering
     > preamp that was designed for use with my portable flag, but I
    also like
     > the W7IUV preamp which you can power with a 9 volt battery for
    portable use.
     >
     > My favorite antenna for direction finding is the portable flag I
     > designed for radio direction finding that Jim (K9YC) mentioned since
     > it's unidirectional and this antenna saves me an enormous amount
    of time
     > since I instantly know what direction the RFI is coming from (no
    need to
     > triangulate like you have to do with a bi-directional antenna in
    order
     > to determine what direction the signal is coming from).  Here is my
     > simple website that describes the portable flag, and it really is an
     > easy antenna to build, but once again you will likely need a preamp.
     > https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/
    <https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/>
     > <https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/
    <https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/>>
     >
     > You could also just go walking around with a portable shortwave
    receiver
     > and whip antenna looking for the strongest signal, but that's
    really a
     > process that can cause a lot of indecision and guessing.
     >
     > P.S. it does you no good guessing what device is generating the
    RFI as
     > long as you understand its behavior (example: on 24 hours a day, not
     > drifting, what frequencies you hear it on, etc).  You first must
    locate
     > the property where the RFI is coming from using radio direction
    finding
     > gear, and then you can figure out what the device is.
     >
     > 73, and let me know if you need more details on the antennas I
    mentioned
     > above.  I have lots of pictures and diagrams I can share with
    you, and
     > they really are simple to build.
     >
     > Don (wd8dsb)
     >


-- Ramakrishnan



--
Ramakrishnan
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